Ty Ty Dewigged!

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Submitted by Coffy on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 1:45pm.
any person, especially women who thinks the media is going to boost your self esteem is delusional. the idea of the media is to sell products and push an "ideal". hell if you look closely at televsion you will see that white women are never blond or thin enough, the skin not smooth enough,tits not perky enough. look at all the products pushed on white women,so if white advertisers feel this way towards white women you know damn well Asian, Black, Latino, or mixed race people have no chance.
turn off the damn television, notice i didn't say tv, nicknmaes are for friends, and for women, minorities, and gays, television is not your damn friend.

Agree with you 100% ;')

Sorry, as a black girl I can't do fake. Hair, nails, eyelashes etc. Never have and never will. Nothing against those that do but it's just not me.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid. "

Good for her, and inspiring, let's hope, for African-American women. Black women's hair and the difficulty for most of them to wear it natural IS a big issue, please read the New York Times article about that:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/27/fashion/27SKIN.html?_r=1

"Submitted by Jimmy Bocca on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 12:33pm.

Submitted by Chocoagogo on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 11:34am.

STOP YOUR BULLSHIT! And YES it is bullshit! This blame game is ridiculous and especially to blame Caucasian woman for African American hair issues! Ugh. This is about preference, someone sees something they like that they don't have and wants to immitate it! Just because black woman are putting chemicals over and over in their and and basically destroying it's NATURAL design doesn't mean they can then turn around and point the finger "THE WHITE WOMAN MADE ME DO IT WITH THEIR HAIR PRODUCT COMMERCIALS" .....seriously??? ?"

I'll remember that the next time I apply for a job and I'm handed a copy of the dress code that tells me my natural hair texture and braided or loc styles, which would be better for my hair than chemical alteration, are "inappropriate" for the workplace.

Again.

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Are you gonna bark all day, little doggie, or are you you gonna bite?

I can see why Ty wears wigs...that is not a big forehead, the bitch is fucking BALD...and the more wigs and weaves she wears the more her natural hair will fall.

It burrrrrrrns!!!! - Miss Coco Peru

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKNZICoKSdA

Aw thanks, anhydre, you make this choco chica all warm and fuzzy ^__^
I'm off to eat, dlisters! Thanks for helping me pass the time...
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Whores of a feather, trick the streets together!

Submitted by stars101Sez_Iha... on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 3:30pm.
Submitted by Sluttsville on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 3:03pm
I'm having a bad hair day. LOL okay that was lame
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I blame it on a Tyra thread, I'm beggin you stars101 to get out of the thread before Tyra sucks all your humor out.

@Chocoagogo, you're one pretty articulate chica.

the western ideal will only change when terms like all American girl or girl next door are used to describe a girl who isn't white.

Submitted by Sluttsville on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 3:03pm

I'm having a bad hair day. LOL okay that was lame

***********My pet hates: Vadge, the Holie-Shitts, Katherine Hagel and Terribly Retarded Knight*********************

Jesus, speak english much?

"It is what it is"

Submitted by Provolone on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 2:46pm.

Come to think of it, I'm probably agreeing with certain points that Jimmy made, Tyra and Oprah are the ones making an issue out of it and I agree they should just "be".

I'm just saying that they shouldn't put pressure on black women either way -to go ethnic or to go weave. I mean Tyra is being unrealistic - how many women (black, pink, white, blue) just dunk their heads in water before work (without even using shampoo or conditioner), don't brush their hair and then head straight for work? Thats kind of what they are suggesting black women should do in order to be "proud", if they want to go ethnic, go ethnic, sometimes just stop making such an issue of it and occasionally feature hairdressers on their makeovers shows who do ethnic styles (without mentioning it or making an issue of it)

***********My pet hates: Vadge, the Holie-Shitts, Katherine Hagel and Terribly Retarded Knight*********************

Submitted by Chocoagogo on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 3:09pm.

I also don't get it, but I guess that they're afraid that not enough people would buy those products and they would lose a lot of money due to that.
I for one started using professional haircare that I'm buying at my hairdresser's. Of course it's much more expensive but therefore you don't have to use as much of it and it doesn't contain all the silicone crap.

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Game blouses!

Provolone, I hear ya. And people will comment that my hair is "so retro," and I'm like er, this isn't some "throw back 'do" this is how a majority of brown hair pops out, dude. But a lot of people just don't know I guess, because you never see it.
And if you wanna know what I look like, it sure isn't what you just described, but I know I live in "the Western" world, so um, what gives? Somethings (ideals, media, whatever) need to be expanded to more accurately portray "the West" then, no?
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Whores of a feather, trick the streets together!

Submitted by Provolone on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 2:46pm.

I'm disagreeing slightly with him and saying racism does play a factor, those same colonialists you were citing that colonized places like India, wrote books on how Black people were intellectually inferior, and how black people had a different head shape to white people.

I think he misunderstood me, I wasn't saying everytime something goes wrong for a black person its somehow a white person's fault and yes there are those people and they are probably the reason that some white people are fed up with hearing "oh its cos I'm black", I didn't pay my rent and I was kicked out - "oh its cos I'm black" people and yes they do de-sensitize people to genuine race issues.

I think that Western society still does tend to place pressure on black women to conform to a certain standard. For example how many black women ever make it onto the world's most beautiful lists, or sexiest lists and YES I know someone will cite Halle Berry but shes biracial, lighter skinned "acceptable black. Thats the role model thats out of there for black girls. Rihanna ditto (lighter skinned, green eyed, "acceptable" minority).

Kelle Rowland for example is really beautiful and never makes it onto the world's sexiest lists, or the most beautiful people lists, whereas people like Rumer Willis (no offense to her) do.

Thats what we are trying to say, yes there is still a standard and yes its a result of old prejudices and grooming by society.

I'm just disagreeing with the way Tyra and Oprah are handling the "issue".

***********My pet hates: Vadge, the Holie-Shitts, Katherine Hagel and Terribly Retarded Knight*********************

Die gel, that's what I'm talking about too - just so happens I'm brown and have an afro. I want healthy hair dammit! I need to shampoo and condition! So what do I look for? If people like you and I are buying these products, shouldn't we have some guide as to what "the ideal" is for curly hair? I mean, does it make sense? But what irks me, personally, is that most brown ladies aren't born with a wig in one hand and a chemical relaxer set in the other, so why not show me as a consumer some ads with brown people that have other hair types in there as well? I don't get it.
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Whores of a feather, trick the streets together!

Submitted by Chocoagogo on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 2:59pm.
Oh and Provolone am I not part of "the West?" What are those "Western" ideals then.

I can't see you, so i don't know. Light eyes, straight hair, blond hair, perky tits, slender, light to mediterranean skintone. You know, white people.

And i agree with you, watered down black people are boring. Black people were portrayed so much better in the 70s.

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Submitted by Plecostomus on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 3:00pm.
DListed is BIG on hair, Sluttsville.
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Pleco, you need to perm your merkin!

Oh and Provolone am I not part of "the West?" What are those "Western" ideals then. America is not all white, and when non-white people are represented in media, it would be nice if they actually were able to look different and not just the brown or darker version of a white counterpart.
And stars, couldn't have said it better!
Slutty, sorry to dig up old news, but I wasn't on yesterday/last night when this was posted, but did want to comment...it happens.
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Whores of a feather, trick the streets together!

DListed is BIG on hair, Sluttsville.

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Bottom-feeder.

OMG, I just noticed peoples posting in this day-old thread, you're almost as bad as the Trent Reznor fans. Day-old threads=warm stale beer.

I think they mainly put people with straight hair in the hair product commercials because straight hair reflects the light better than curly hair and therefore it shines more. Shiny hair equals healthy hair and that is what those companies want to sell.
Here in Germany they show a lot of Asian women in those hair product commercials. Straight, shiny hair is an ideal of beauty for many women.
I also don't feel represented by those commercials. I'm white and have curly hair and those shampoos contain a lot of silicone which makes the hair heavier each time I'm washing it so that I don't have my curls but I also don't have straight hair. It looks like crap and has no volume.

♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬

Game blouses!

why is the ideal when it comes to minorities white washed?
why is the ideal gay perosn, one who doesn't "act too gay". same with Black folk, as long as your not "too black" your ok. basically if you're ethnic, downplay it, and well just try to fit in. oh and don't complain cause then you'll be like those uppity Negroes.

Provolone, exactly! It's like, why is Tyra banks taking off her wigs newsworthy? The fuck? I guess it's because the likes of her, Oprah, Naomi, Beyonce, Rihanna, Ciara, Janet, hell, even athletes like Serena and Venus feel like they can't rock their hair, and have to always sport some fake shit.
Speaking of the Williams sisters: do you all remember when they first came out and had their braids? That was cool (I thought the beads were a bit much lol but that's just me being nitpicky) but could you imagine them nowadays with cornrows? Or twists? Just doesn't happen!
And how many times has Tyra blubbered that wearing weaves are impeding on her romantic life because she can't have the person she's dating touch or play with her hair, for fear a track is gonna fall out or her wig is gonna slide off? Damn, bitch, if it's that uncomfortable, don't wear the shit, right!?! Common sense but I guess she feels her career would be over if she did.
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
Whores of a feather, trick the streets together!

Submitted by stars101Sez_Iha... on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 2:42pm.

I think his point is that there is a standard. And its perfectly logical, not-racist when that standard is geared towards western ideals, of which are the vast majority.

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Submitted by Jimmy Bocca on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 2:16pm.

You sound like the one with the chip on your shoulder, no I'm not doing a Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton and saying everytime a black person stubs their toes the white race is somehow to blame. I believe OJ was guilty and yes there are some people who play the race card and blame whites for everything thats not what I'm doing.

I'm just saying there is a standard whether YOU want to acknowledge or not (I'm guessing you are white), and might not have encountered it as a result.

Its like saying thinner girls tend to have a better chance in the modelling industry and then you as a thin girl say that slightly more curvaceous women are playing the "victim" when they say that agents never pick them. Then you cite Beth Ditto for example as someone who is overweight and who made it in the industry but thats the EXCEPTION rather than the rule is the point that we are trying to get across.

You for example might have been geeky in Highschool and been bullied as a result of it, it wouldn't be alright for me as someone who has never been bullied to DENY your experiences and say that you are playing the victim just because I might never have experienced it and then I cite Bill Gates as an example and say "see Geeks have made it" blah blah blah.

Don't deny and take away other people's rights and experiences. I mean one could do the same with any issue, I can declare as a straight person that gay people face no discrimination and are playing the "victim" but that would be unfair since I'm not gay and have never experienced some of things and bullying gay youth might have been exposed to and yes I can cite the exceptions (Elton John, bblah blah) but you get my drift hopefully

***********My pet hates: Vadge, the Holie-Shitts, Katherine Hagel and Terribly Retarded Knight*********************

Submitted by Chocoagogo on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 2:37pm.

Thought you were making the point that black people were under-represented in media ads, but i guess its how they are portrayed your getting at.

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Provolone, I'm not talking about having more minorities in commercials, or more brown people in commercials, I'm saying have different KINDS of brown people. What does 10% have to do with always having brown models in wigs? Are you clear on what I'm arguing about? I'm tired of seeing brown women slapped in extensions, wigs, or having chemicals dumped on their heads before they can show up in the media.
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
Whores of a feather, trick the streets together!

Submitted by stars101Sez_Iha... on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 2:23pm.
Submitted by Jimmy Bocca on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 7:16am

Bleach sells so well, in India for example as well where most Indian actresses look like tanned white girls (the majority of india is dark) and it has been noted that lighter skin is something that most Indian girls are taught to crave.

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Totally true not only in India, but far east Asian countries like China, Japan, Korea, etc. In Hong Kong alone, skin bleach is a billion dollar industry. Even mainstream companies that we have in the US (Ponds, Loreal, Dior, etc) have skin whitening products on the market in other countries that they wouldn't dare market here because it's un-PC. There's several cultural reasons as to why white skin is lauded in these countries, one being colonial influences. Two, because it's rare naturally in the population, it's more coveted. Three, dark skin means you spend time in the sun. Who spends time the in sun? Nobility in their fancy, shaded homes or laborers toiling away in the heat? White skin=wealth.

white companies tend to not want to include too many brown faces in their ads, because the thought will be that the produt is specially designed for our us, and that will deter their white audience from using the product.
remember when pantene used to a Blck girl in their shampoo commercial? who knew that would be groundbreaking, or a one time thing.
i think the problem from the advertisers point of view is this, they want minorities money, but they don't want to scare white people away.

Actually people have seen a void in the 'beauty' supply market and filled it. Of course this was when some blacks were Republicans : D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_B._Fuller

Lets also not lose site of the reality that african americans only make up 10% of the population.

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Submitted by Jimmy Bocca on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 7:16am

I can give you numerous examples. Disney for example how many black kids are cast as the Hannah Montanas or the princesses of Disney.

Hmm, most young black kids don't have any teen role models to aspire to since they are not chosen.

YES it is a noted fact, that LIGHTER SKINNED models have a better chance in the industry ditto for lighter skinned actresses.

Halle Berry for example.

When studios are casting for a female love interest, how many cast for black women with white guys? Hmmmm and if they do its usually biracial lighter skinned "Acceptable" versions.

Thats what we mean. Yes things are changing but lets not pretend that the standard doesn't exist and that African American moms are pouring heavy chemicals on their kids heads (some of which are cancer causing) just because they feel like it and there is no pressure on them to present themselves in a certain way.

Fairy tales (Snow White for example), there are lots of examples of how whiter = better.

Bleach sells so well, in India for example as well where most Indian actresses look like tanned white girls (the majority of india is dark) and it has been noted that lighter skin is something that most Indian girls are taught to crave.

Its like saying yes the ideal role for women is still portrayed as baby making machines, yes things are changing but that standard is still there

***********My pet hates: Vadge, the Holie-Shitts, Katherine Hagel and Terribly Retarded Knight*********************

OK Bocacaca, same thing goes for you: just because I want to see more people like me on TV, I'm suddenly a neo-Black Panther trying to take the evil white man down? You obviously don't know me either, trick.
Um, yeah, if that's *your* logic, you do sound like an ignorant, ass backwards fool. When I'm getting pills to be able to deal with your bullshit, I'll pick you up a bottle to wake your delusional ass up lol!!!
Next!
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
Whores of a feather, trick the streets together!

Coffy that's what I'm saying: I challenge the nonsense that's shoved onto us as consumers all the time. Like I asked before: if a kid wants to play with a doll and you can't find anything that looks like her/him, isn't that fucked up?
When the nearest approximation is some chemically straightened hair or some jherri curl (sp) looking thing?? Is it up to the consumers to demand better rep. in the products the big-wigs are peddling or should we just sit back and twiddle our thumbs?
Or just do as Bocaca suggests, and make our "own?" I guess? Why is that even necessary if people are pouring their money into your non-specialized product?
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Whores of a feather, trick the streets together!

Submitted by Chocoagogo on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 2:08pm.

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Bitch are you fucking nuts! You do not know me personally and shouldn't comment on things like me making more friends or getting out and seeing the world. Just because I have a different point of view then you, all the sudden I'm this close minded backwards idiot! Yea your logic rocks! Do us all a favor and un-tie the ropes you have created with your delusional thought process of always wanting to be downtrodden. I hope you realize someday you are NOT a victim and no one is out to get you especially hair product commercials! Either that or get medication to stabilize your irrational thinking! Or you can continue to blame blame blame "western society" and the evil white man for all you indiscretions! FUN LIFE!

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www.myspace.com/Dreamkilla26

Save your breath, Jimmy Bocaca because I learned a long time ago that trying to reason with ignorant, self-absorbed assholes is just a waste of breath, and you can't even respond to any of the questions I posed.
Hopefully people like you will dwindle as the world becomes more interconnected, 'cos it's just mind boggling how someone can be so wrapped up in their own little world and delusional.
Make some new friends! Travel! You clearly haven't be exposed to realities outside of your on front yard before.
Edited to include: and Garnier and those products AREN'T marketed towards whites only! They'll slap in a brown/mixed/non white woman with a weave/wig/extensions in to show "diversity" when in reality, those women don't even have hair like that to begin with. I'll guarantee you if someone called Garnier out and said: are you marketing these products to whites only? They'd be like: hell no! Because they know that all sorts of people are spending their $ on their shit. If they were saying "for straight hair only" I understand. Pick up a bottle: it will say "for damaged hair" or for "color treated hair" or "for dry hair" not "FOR WHITE HAIR ONLY."
What the fuck are you even saying, Bocaca? What do you really know?
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Whores of a feather, trick the streets together!

@Chocoagogo, i tend to look at things logically and not emotionally. so i look at it as white advertisers don't portray white people fairly, so i know how they're going to treat my black ass.
what does bother me, is people who don't have sense enough to challenge what they view on television.

Submitted by Coffy on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 1:45pm.

any person, especially women who thinks the media is going to boost your self esteem is delusional. the idea of the media is to sell products and push an "ideal".
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Agreed. And if they're gonna keep making money they're gonna make the ideal as hard to attain as possible.

♥ Threadkilla!
As an Evil Overlord, I will never utter the sentence "But before I kill you, there's just one more thing I want to know."

Submitted by Chocoagogo on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 1:57pm
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GROW UP and stop falling into the "victim" role, no one is saying that black consumers aren't out there and I've acknowledge several times that there are products specifically marketed towards blacks. The problem comes in when a product is marketed towards whites then all the sudden it's this BIG race issue and all the sudden "Western Society" is to blame for your insecurities. MOST of America and Almost all of Europe as a whole is Caucasian so of course the majority of product campaigns are going to market towards these consumer groups! CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT?!?

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www.myspace.com/Dreamkilla26

Submitted by Chocoagogo on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 1:47pm.

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Do you suffer from schizophrenia? Honestly? Because if you do then I won't be so hard on you! I was NOT getting off topic at all I was merely giving an example to show you how anything can be misconstrued to look like a certain company is subconsciously trying to be prejudice! Is that concept so hard for you to understand??? If anyone is getting off topic you are because this whole conversation started when someone complained about black and Asian woman having to conform to "Western Societies" ideas of Beauty which 89% of the population (including Caucasians) can't even conform to! This isn't a black or white issue. This is how the world works, you don't think I see models and wish I could look like them....Oh wait am I getting off topic here, I wouldn't want to confuse your under-developed brain!

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www.myspace.com/Dreamkilla26

Coffy, I don't watch TV and I don't subscribe to those big mags anymore precisely because I grew up and realized all these people do is tear you down and make you hate yourself to then sell you crap that doesn't work, but once upon a time, I watched MTV and read Cosmo and Vogue like all my other little friends did and it always bugged me that I just simply didn't exist in these ads! Wtf!
But you roll through anywhere and see bus stops or billboards and you can't avoid those ads and it's just really...disheartening.
Like I said to angel: I'm out there, showing up, going to the castings, so at least people like Jimmy Bitchface can't sit behind their monitors or on their couch with no experience or knowledge about how things really work and say "well, brown women just don't *show* up to these things so you can't fault the execs for not casting them!" They have the opportunity! 'cos that's some donkey shit.
I guess it's a double-edged sword: going by your logic Coffy, maybe all the little non-white girls and boys are lucky not to have toys or ads that feature people like them, so they don't grow up with a Barbie complex or maybe it hurts them even more that they really have *nothing* to identify with when it comes to what's considered pretty and desirable.
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Whores of a feather, trick the streets together!

Right back at you, Jimmy Bocabitch, if you think I'm playing a victim role just by saying I'm a consumer, I want to see myself represented in the ads without having to through on a wig, then you're a fucktard and well *shrug* life is full of bitches like you. You exist and there's nothing I can do about it other than step over shit like you and keep walking.
There's still a lot of homophobia in this country and why shouldn't gay couples be in condom ads? Do you think I don't support gay issues too, or why are you always introducing other random examples to stray away from the discussion at hand?
And since you want to throw Obama into the mix, what would you tell his daughters if they ask why nobody has hair kinky hair like them (at least like Malia on some days): you've got your *own* black products! Go out and by Motions or Lusters and shut up!
Ignorant prick. Next!
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Whores of a feather, trick the streets together!

Submitted by Chocoagogo on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 1:33pm.

Oh and believe me, clients have tossed in the extensions on me many a time. That's the frustrating thing - I'm out there to show that I'm pretty with my hair the way it is before chemicals are added. It kind of defeats the purpose to then slap on a wig and cover all of that up....
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I can understand that. It will take forever but, I think if you just keep showing up like that - and encourage other models to do the same they WILL get used to it. It's just that MOST models will try to cover that shit up before they get there.

I always think about that with cycling (sounds weird but stick with me)...many many many moons ago I began riding my bike everywhere. I din't dress up in biking clothes or ride a fancy bike. It's my car. When I started - it was me and three other hos doing that - and people would always ask me: Aren't you scared? Isn't it hard? Wouldn't you rather not? and I explained: I'm careful and not too pushy. I take a lot of side roads so it's nice actually - quiet and green, a moment of peace...Having to take weird routes and wait 20 minutes for busses, streetcars, subways is just the HUGEST waste of time. Almost everywhere within the city you can get to just as fast on a bike as in a car - and sometimes faster becuz we don't deal with the same traffic, and so on. I splained it a million times.

NOW - many moons later - I find I have to fight for space out there with other cyclists. EVERYONE rides their bikes now. And that's the power of the domino effect. A city of 4 million and it really was three other hos and I who convinced everyone that cycling was better in a lot of ways...

And about Jimmy. He's an angry (almost)white man. Don't mind him - he's always like that.

♥ Threadkilla!
As an Evil Overlord, I will never utter the sentence "But before I kill you, there's just one more thing I want to know."

JIMMY! KEVIN FOR THE WIN!

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"This is MK. He started it" angel_i
Kara DioYOUKILLEDPAULA! SCRAGS BITCHES! MK
"Wudnt nuthin strage bout yo daddy!" Al Sharpton

any person, especially women who thinks the media is going to boost your self esteem is delusional. the idea of the media is to sell products and push an "ideal". hell if you look closely at televsion you will see that white women are never blond or thin enough, the skin not smooth enough,tits not perky enough. look at all the products pushed on white women,so if white advertisers feel this way towards white women you know damn well Asian, Black, Latino, or mixed race people have no chance.
turn off the damn television, notice i didn't say tv, nicknmaes are for friends, and for women, minorities, and gays, television is not your damn friend.

x'es! and y'es we JINX!

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"This is MK. He started it" angel_i
Kara DioYOUKILLEDPAULA! SCRAGS BITCHES! MK
"Wudnt nuthin strage bout yo daddy!" Al Sharpton

Submitted by snowpiece on Wed, 09/09/2009 - 1:33pm.
Garnier is a bunch of lies just like all those ads. Redken conditioners are AWESOME!if a little pricey, when I am broke I go for the old standby, Pantene...

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Lol. Snowwy! No FB! I am over MS too I never go on! Are you happy Jeff is gone? I fuming that NataLIE might win! ERRR. I hate her!

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www.myspace.com/Dreamkilla26

*blushes*@xxy and snowy, TY bitchez:)

♥ Threadkilla!
As an Evil Overlord, I will never utter the sentence "But before I kill you, there's just one more thing I want to know."

Hey, Choco: Fair enough. I get a little saucy up in here in the DListed myself - so my apologies for going off on you like that. Honestly, I don't know what I'm dealing with. I was explaining the weird cultural differences between here and the States, to my daughter yesterday. I'm not sure I did a great job. At the end she said: "I don't wanna go to the States. I want to live." So there you go;p

♥ Threadkilla!
As an Evil Overlord, I will never utter the sentence "But before I kill you, there's just one more thing I want to know."

Garnier is a bunch of lies just like all those ads. Redken conditioners are AWESOME!if a little pricey, when I am broke I go for the old standby, Pantene...

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"This is MK. He started it" angel_i
Kara DioYOUKILLEDPAULA! SCRAGS BITCHES! MK
"Wudnt nuthin strage bout yo daddy!" Al Sharpton