Helen Mirren Talks About Rape....Again
Back in September, Helen Mirren gave an interview to GQ Magazine and admitted that she'd been date raped a couple of times. She also made a bunch of people burn their DVD copies of "Prime Suspect" when she said that if a woman goes to bed with a dude and changes her mind at the last minute, the woman shouldn't take the dude to court if she gets raped. Helen believes it's something that should be worked out between them. You know, with a game of rock, paper, scissors. Something like that.
Well, Dame Helen is talking about rape again! She really knows how to clear a room.
In an interview with a female journalist for The Sunday Times, Helen starts off by explaining why she would rather be interviewed by a dude than by a chick. She says, "No, it’s more that I prefer male journalists because there’s a streak of female journalism — the bitches — who are mean-spirited and nasty because you are another woman and want to make you feel crap. It’s very upsetting. I’m more careful when I’m being interviewed by a woman because, from experience as well as reading articles about other women, I know there is a little stiletto knife hidden behind the back."
Point taken. Helen then gets into everyone's favorite subject: rape.
Helen thinks a mostly female jury won't convict a male rapist, because women are sexually jealous of other women. Helen says that the defense team try to get as many chicks on the jury as possible " because women go against women." She went on to say, "Whether in a deep-seated animalistic way, going back billions of years, or from a sense of tribal jealousy or just antagonism, I don't know. But other women on a rape case would say she was asking for it. The only reason I can think of is that they're sexually jealous."
Vera Baird, a British politician, immediately responded to Helen's comments: "This is just such an ignorant thing to say, to suggest that the defense or prosecution have any involvement in the selection of a jury. I do not know what she is talking about, women hating women. This is a vast generalization based on nothing, but unfortunately it is likely to have a deterrent effect."
Please, please, please, Helen! You're making everyone cry with your personal thoughts about rape. If you're going to talk about this shit, then come prepared with years of research you have done, pie charts, Powerpoint presentations, etc...etc...
I would drink a cup of Helen's lukewarm bathwater, so I'm just going to hang my head and file this under: Not Today, Helen. And then I'm going to go watch the PUPPIES!!! They make everything better.
Go here to read Helen's entire interview.
Submitted by Anonymouse73 on Tue, 11/18/2008 - 4:20pm.
My mom used to say that women don't dress for men, they dress for other women. I think she might be on to something.
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So did Van Morrison
And all the girls walk by
Dressed up for each other
And the boys do the boogie-woogie
On the corner of the street
And the people passin by
Just stare in wild wonder
And the inside juke-box
Roars out just like thunder.
And everything looks so complete...
The wild night is calling
The wild night is calling
Come on out and dance
Come on out and make romance....
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When you can't lie to yourself, that's depressing.
highaboveManhataan> Uh, no. No means no. It doesn't matter if you are in the midst of things...if one person changes her/his mind and the other person goes ahead and does it anyway, that is rape.
I sort of agree w. Helen about the "women hating women" thing. I get along much better w. men than with women. Not because I particularly dislike women, but b/c women have this need to act all competitive when it comes to men...also, men are just more laid back and easy-going. They are not into The Drama. I def. think there is a natural jealousy going on between women. It's evolutionary. My mom used to say that women don't dress for men, they dress for other women. I think she might be on to something.
"Submitted by patty cake on Mon, 11/17/2008 - 10:05pm.
maybe if she learned to love women and have friends she wouldnt have been hanging out with assholes that raped her... girls that only have guy friends often get taken advantage of."
I don't understand what you're trying to say. Do you think rape is a punishment for exclusively having male friends? Most of my friends are male...and I've never been taken advantage of. And even if I had, it wouldn't be my fault for only having male friends.
Helen's hot but crazy.
I'm asking for a petal pink C2 taser with laser sight for Christmas. It fits in your purse, has a 15 ft range, and can paralyze a grizzly bear for 45 seconds.
I personally am just looking for a reason to put a dirty bastid down on the floor.
And zap his pig ass again.
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Dove gli scoiattoli sono masticare questa testa della noce via?
Where are the squirrels to chew this nut's head off?--Auntie Mame
oh and I would totally be on the side of the victim in a rape case....
xoxox
The war isn't working.
Submitted by QueenCharisma on Mon, 11/17/2008 - 5:52pm.
QC---I've missed you!
You're prolly long gone by now, but if you come back here and read this, here's a big virtual hug.
*hug and squeeze tight*
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Today's translation:
Dove gli scoiattoli sono masticare questa testa della noce via?
Where are the squirrels to chew this nut's head off?--Auntie Mame
maybe if she learned to love women and have friends she wouldnt have been hanging out with assholes that raped her... girls that only have guy friends often get taken advantage of.
xoxox
The war isn't working.
um Helen ICK shhhhhhh
be quiet talk to your shrink and the police... go to schools or half way houses and share... date rape is questionable at best.... a smart girl doesnt get herself into those situations...naked in bed with someone she doesnt want to sleep with... not raped on a date...is what I'm talking about..or drunk and drugged with a guy... duh..make yourself vulnerable and shit will happen.
xoxox
The war isn't working.
Truthfully, I didn't feel a thing, but wifey did fart ;)
the DUDE! abides...
LOL yeah, it wasn't a biggie. Just a little shake to get you outta bed.
Submitted by M.E. on Mon, 11/17/2008 - 7:21pm.
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I just thought wifey cut one and fell right back asleep.
the DUDE! abides...
Hey DUDE!! Had a bit of rock n and rollin this morning no??
SHAKE SHAKE SHAKE!
Oh, Helen. Tsk, tsk. Rape is not about sex, and no woman feels "jealousy" over another woman getting raped! Personally, I feel the opposite - if I was on a jury for a rape case, I'd want to hang the sonofabitch ASAP.
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President Obama - Get used to it! :)
Submitted by DUDE on Mon, 11/17/2008 - 6:39pm.
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AHAHAHAHAHA!
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Sorry, Roger, you are tiger now...
Submitted by angel_i on Mon, 11/17/2008 - 5:51pm.
Submitted by Lipstick on Mon, 11/17/2008 - 5:06pm.
Submitted by ocd can be good on Mon, 11/17/2008 - 3:07pm.
I took a victimology course once and somebody theorized that perhaps some women didn't so much blame the victim but sought a way to distance themselves from them.
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I actually find that weird. In trying to assertain the course of events my first inclination would be to put myself in her shoes. And then, of course, distance myself so I could understand her motivations as they pertained to her personality, history and the situation at hand. I find it weird that someone would allow themselves that much self-serving emotional riffing while sitting on a jury.
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I tend to believe most (certainly not all) women who had emotional issues with rape and felt that it might interfere with their duty to be impartial would say so.
I'm not sure about this argument about "distancing oneself". This sounds like so much feminist tripe. A more likely possibility is these jurors believed the evidence was not sufficient for a conviction. If this is a specific juror who said this, then this woman has issues, but otherwise, I do not buy this as a common explanation for an an acquital of a violent crime
Remember, you are sending a person to PRISON for a long time. I'm sorry, but if the evidence of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt is not there, I'm not willing to do that. If it's there, I've got no problems voting for conviction, and I hope Karma fucks him in the ass.
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Sorry, Roger, you are tiger now...
Submitted by Tigerlilly on Mon, 11/17/2008 - 5:50pm.
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I see you've met one of my ex's.
the DUDE! abides...
Submitted by highAboveManhattan on Mon, 11/17/2008 - 4:13pm.
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You're blaming the victims of rape?! Really?! You are EXACTLY the type of woman this crazy bitch is talking about. And people like you are the reason these asshole rapists continue to do the shit they do. You and Helen both need to STFU.
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"Tact is just not saying true stuff - I'll pass" - Cordelia Chase, Buffy
I love JRM!!!!
Submitted by Lipstick on Mon, 11/17/2008 - 5:06pm.
Submitted by ocd can be good on Mon, 11/17/2008 - 3:07pm.
I took a victimology course once and somebody theorized that perhaps some women didn't so much blame the victim but sought a way to distance themselves from them.
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I actually find that weird. In trying to assertain the course of events my first inclination would be to put myself in her shoes. And then, of course, distance myself so I could understand her motivations as they pertained to her personality, history and the situation at hand. I find it weird that someone would allow themselves that much self-serving emotional riffing while sitting on a jury.
♥ ThreadKilla!
A DListed Chola Diary , Lean Like a Chola
It's Britney, Bitch!<
Submitted by happyface on Mon, 11/17/2008 - 5:32pm.
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I think there are certain types of women who are pathologically jealous of other women. I also think many of these women may suffer from Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I knew a chick like that. She LOVED married men, dated two at once. She liked to flirt with all taken men in front of their girlfriends. She loved to use her drunkeness and an excuse to show off her body. She insisted that just about every woman was jealous of her (including the judge at her DUI trial). But anyone who flirted with HER man was a "whore". Anyone whose breast implants were bigger than hers looked "disgusting". If some man was paying more attention to her friend than her in a bar, it was either because a) he liked only blondes (if said friend was blonde) or b) he was really trying to talk to her but her friend (who was jealous of her of course) wouldn't let him. Oh, let's see, yes, she tried to pull her daughter's boyfriend into bed with her. I mean, shall I go on? There are women like this, and they are the problem...
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Sorry, Roger, you are tiger now...
Not to be a horrible buzzkill, but today's LA Times has a story about a psychopath who, at a local campground, randomly shot two 12-yr-old girls in the head because he had some fixation with long hair. (After 4 trials, he was sentenced to death in 1983. He's still on death row, with ongoing appeals.) As with rape, violent crimes can be entirely blameless and anonymous.
Ugh. I thought she was cool a while back.
Dry pussy and dementia are getting the best of her.
boys have cooties
-☮'---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮-
Oh Wont You Come On Over, Stop Making A Fool Out Of Me, Oh Why Don't You Come On Over, Valerie.
highaboveManhattan-
"also, every ugly sexual experience you have isn't date rape - it's just a bad experience. women use your brains, don't put yourself in compromising positions with marginal people."
Hmm...Helen would probably say you're sexually jealous for saying that.
Saying women naturally hate women is THE most sexist thing I have ever heard. I know a lot of women do work against other women, but maybe, just maybe it is because women feel they have to CLAW their way to the top because they are generally not respected on the whole. Didn't they have this phenomena in every group that has been made to feel less? I vaguely remember coming across this concept while studying the life of black slaves. One would turn in the other, or the idea of being a "houseslave".
Women aren't born to be little bitches with each other. We've been socialized that way.
Tigerlilly-
About women always blaming women in love triangles? Again, socialization. But if we keep saying women hate women, it's just like saying "boys will be boys". It perpetuates the problem.
Highaboveman, I'm of the belief that no means no NO MATTER how you're dressed. Even if you're in the 11th hour and do not want to have sex. This is whole take responsibility is like the whole sexual jealousy theory. Sure women can get sexually jealous in competition over a man...(and I can't understand WHAT man is worth that type of attention, but whatever), but in terms of rape? Doesn't really make sense, why would another woman think that she was asking for it by the way she was dressed or acting? That's just...I don't know...way fucked up!
Your face!
Submitted by ocd can be good on Mon, 11/17/2008 - 3:07pm.
I took a victimology course once and somebody theorized that perhaps some women didn't so much blame the victim but sought a way to distance themselves from them. The jury member wanted to see that she was different from the victim somehow so that she could then feel that she would be safe from rape. So, she'd then focus on how she was dressed, or the fact that she was out late at night, etc. It's a psychological defence mechanism utilized by the jury member. The victim gets screwed twice.
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Very interesting, that explains a lot of things.
I've just read Nick Cave's novel "And the ass saw the angel". By the way, Nick Cave is a genius. There's a part in the book about a slut who was violently beaten by the town women. She was beautiful and young, and they were old and very religious. They broke her nose and teeth and cut her hair... You know, there's some truth to it, the whole sexual jelousy thing....
BUT. What Helen said about female jury is way too much. And stop talking about rape, helen, we get it.
Less sexual jealousy, more sexual chocolate.
Sexual Chocolate!
the DUDE! abides...
Submitted by highAboveManhattan on Mon, 11/17/2008 - 4:13pm.
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I agree to a small degree with some of what you are saying. I think one major difference between you and me (and I mean this with all due respect) is that I don't believe that I'm not vulnerable to rape or any other crime just because I believe that I do not knowingly put myself in dangerous situations. It could still happen to me or you.
I think it's naive to suggest that sexual jealousy does not exist in women, but I don't think that it exists in pathological levels in most women. It's one thing to envy another woman's looks in a wistful admiring way and quite another to despise her for it. I think it's quite normal to feel a little intimidated in the presence of, say, a supermodel, but that does not mean sexual jealousy, necessarily, or even true insecurity. I'd feel intimidated in the presence of an ugly Nobel Prize winner too, but if both the super model and Nobel Prize winner were kind to me, I'd like them. I'd still envy them, but I'd like them and tend to wish them well. I think the term "jealousy" is thrown around too loosely, I guess.
I also do not believe that sexual jealousy plays a part in women jurors acquitting alleged rapists of rape which brings me to wonder: HM says she's been date raped, I wonder if her case went to trial and a predominately female juror acquitted the rapist?
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Sorry, Roger, you are tiger now...
She has a bit of a point. Just a bit of one. I think she is generalizing waaaaaaaay too much. As a woman, I understand just how crazy, catty, bitchy and petty women can be with each other. However, I don't think most women are crazy, catty, bitchy or petty. And I certainly don't think most women would sit on a jury thinking of ways to be more crazy, catty, bitchy and petty. Damn, where is all that woman hating coming from, Helen? Beware the woman who mercilessly dumps on other women without provocation. That's all I can say about that...HELEN!
Submitted by highAboveManhattan on Mon, 11/17/2008 - 4:13pm.
unfortunately, she's right. many of you are probably a little bit too inexperienced to realize it,
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I WISH! I was thinking that the other day. When I was young I said: I want to experience all life has to offer! And now I'm just fucking tired, dude.
ANYWITCHHUNT! Same with men, blah blah blah. Some people are bitchy and some people are not.
♥ ThreadKilla!
A DListed Chola Diary , Lean Like a Chola
It's Britney, Bitch!<
The fuck???
What is this woman babbling about?
"Sexual jealousy"???
God, AS IF all women are such simple creatures, unable to control our "primal" urges or "hate" for each other, or whatever the fuck she's suggesting.
Hey, Helen - you are wrong. Stick to acting.
What a moron.... looks like nobody will be hiring Ms. Mirren as a jury selection consultant anytime soon!
women do have what is called sexual jealousy, it's a recognized behavior that causes many women to behave VERY badly.
Is that the scientific term?
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We is tailing jokes in hair twoday!
unfortunately, she's right. many of you are probably a little bit too inexperienced to realize it, but our girl Helen speaks the truth both about the rape and the female reporters.
women do have what is called sexual jealousy, it's a recognized behavior that causes many women to behave VERY badly. as much as i'd like my sisters to be above it, they aren't.
with regards to the date rape phenomena, women need to take responsibility for their actions and their bodies or they're infantalizing themselves. if you're in bed with someone and change your mind in the 11th hour and something unpleasant happenes to you - oh well - grow the fuck up. don't go whining and ask the courts to figure it out. you should have used better judgement in first place.
also, every ugly sexual experience you have isn't date rape - it's just a bad experience. women use your brains, don't put yourself in compromising positions with marginal people.
Amen, MAD! We are a sisterhod.
With all due respect to Helen Mirren, this press is making her sound like an idiot.
~~~
Love,
Mabel
How little we understand what touches off that tingle,
That sudden explosion when two tingles intermingle. --Mrs. Kravitz
I get where she is coming from... but a very high percentage of the women I know are like me - we love women!! (No not the gayelle percentage) really - we are a sisterhood - BE GOOD TO EACHOTHER!
Submitted by paris herpes on Mon, 11/17/2008 - 2:57pm.
It's tricky business, that whole woman hating women. It's what a male-dominated society makes women believe, that's why it's VERY important that women learn how to love each other without this whole "sexual jealousy" b.s. (made up by men that is) dividing us. Too bad Helen actually believes that this would happen from a legal standpoint. I would reckon to say (and without any research done) that most men would be prosecuted for rape despite the jury being made up of women. And to say that they would rule in favor of the man because of "sexual jealousy" is mere conjecture and verging on the blasphemous. Not a single woman on the jury would WANT to be raped. Being raped is probably the worst thing EVER for a woman and it's ultimately how men can violently and sexually dominate/subjugate women.
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Yeah, I tend to doubt that sexual jealousy would cause any women to acquit an alleged rapist they felt was guilty. I think that's not even an issue in rape cases.
First of all, the simple fact being that often times rape is difficult to prove, especially when the two involved are acquainted because it is the burden of the prosecution to PROVE beyond a REASONABLE doubt that it wasn't consensual. The victim's word is not enough.
I think that when women perform their duty as jurors and find an alleged rapist not guilty, it is simply because the evidence presented to them did not prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, and not because they thought the victim was "asking for it" or because they are jealous.
It would tear me up inside to acquit a rapist that I even suspected on gut instinct and nothing else may be guilty, but the job of the jury is to weigh the evidence...ALL of it, and follow the law. If you can't or won't do that, you don't belong on a jury, regardless of gender.
Women ARE capable of putting our emotions aside and judging situations based on fact, particularly in a court of law. To imply otherwise, is a greater insult than the blanket generalization of sexual jealousy.
If, infact, women do more often vote for acquital in rape cases than men do (which I tend to doubt, but it's possible), why couldn't one conclude that ONE of many possible reasons why might be because they generally tend to be more consciencious jurors in crimes that are notoriously difficult to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt?
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Sorry, Roger, you are tiger now...
Submitted by BUUURP on Mon, 11/17/2008 - 2:30pm.
Well, in my opinion, that's the problem! If we were all sisters, we wouldn't be stealing each other's men! You fuck my husband, bitch, you AIN'T MY SISTER.
Well the whole thing about a mostly female jury not convicting a male rapist is kind of really fucked. I wonder if she's one of those women who claims that they only like to hang out with men because all girls are bitches. I know other women like that and I totally don't understand it. The problem lies with you if you think that all women are catty and jealous of you.
I'm sorry but I have to talk about the puppies... did they get a bigger bed or is the camera at a different angle?
"This is just such an ignorant thing to say, to suggest that the defense or prosecution have any involvement in the selection of a jury."
Uhmmm, duh?! Two words-JURY CONSULTANT!
I took a victimology course once and somebody theorized that perhaps some women didn't so much blame the victim but sought a way to distance themselves from them. The jury member wanted to see that she was different from the victim somehow so that she could then feel that she would be safe from rape. So, she'd then focus on how she was dressed, or the fact that she was out late at night, etc. It's a psychological defence mechanism utilized by the jury member. The victim gets screwed twice.
OMG!!! when did this become another Jolie x Aniston thread??? really????
**whatever**
It's tricky business, that whole woman hating women. It's what a male-dominated society makes women believe, that's why it's VERY important that women learn how to love each other without this whole "sexual jealousy" b.s. (made up by men that is) dividing us. Too bad Helen actually believes that this would happen from a legal standpoint. I would reckon to say (and without any research done) that most men would be prosecuted for rape despite the jury being made up of women. And to say that they would rule in favor of the man because of "sexual jealousy" is mere conjecture and verging on the blasphemous. Not a single woman on the jury would WANT to be raped. Being raped is probably the worst thing EVER for a woman and it's ultimately how men can violently and sexually dominate/subjugate women.
Sorry her comments make me very very upset!
Your face!
Submitted by DeeDee on Mon, 11/17/2008 - 1:54pm.
What can I say? How can I compete with Mrs. K? She can pick her scabs and make some delicious latkes. *praying scabs aren't the secret ingredient*
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Um do yourself a favor and stay out of my kitchen, 'K?
-☮'---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮-
Oh Wont You Come On Over, Stop Making A Fool Out Of Me, Oh Why Don't You Come On Over, Valerie.
Submitted by BUUURP on Mon, 11/17/2008 - 2:30pm.
Are we not all sisters?
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No, we are definitely not all sisters. That was one of the many mistakes the Womens' Movement made. (Be thankful that you are not all my sisters, though, cuz my sister is a skank! ;oP ) But I agree with you about the Angie/Jen hatred and would add Sienna Miller to that list. Women are FAR more vicious to women in these love triangles. SHE'S alwasy the 'homewrecker', 'the whore'. The guy who left his wife for his mistress is NEVER referred to as a homewrecker or a whore, even though it was HIS leaving that wrecked the home and HIS pee pee that strayed...There is too much viciousness in the judgment of other womens' sins while the men get off nearly scott free...
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Sorry, Roger, you are tiger now...
Women hating women?
I hate to admit it but we've seen this to be true in the infamous media-born triangle of Brad, Angie & Jen. Women have been saying vicious, hateful things about either Angie or Jen but very seldom do they point the finger at Brad.
Why? He was the one who was married, not Angie. Isn't he ultimately responsible for how he behaves in a relationship? Why does Angie have to be accountable for his and Jen's marriage? Why does Brad get a pass?
Being a woman who finds it easy to stick up for women over men (and no, I'm not a lesbian) I just feel a strong kinship with women that I don't always with men. I am saddened to read the comments that are left by mostly Jennifer's fans and some Angie fans. Are we not all sisters?
Submitted by Mustang Sally on Mon, 11/17/2008 - 1:40pm.
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A little more recent.
You down with OPP?
the DUDE! abides...
Submitted by Sluttsville on Mon, 11/17/2008 - 12:44pm.
Submitted by Mrs.Kravitz on Mon, 11/17/2008 - 12:38pm.
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Mrs. K, not here....the unattractive pals will become jealous of our friendship and may try to harm you. *glances at Nitty, PSL, Dee, &Sheeps*
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What can I say? How can I compete with Mrs. K? She can pick her scabs and make some delicious latkes. *praying scabs aren't the secret ingredient*
☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! ~Homer Simpson
Submitted by meeeee on Mon, 11/17/2008 - 1:46pm.
Doesn't the defense team screen and choose the jury from dozens of prospective jurors called upon at random? Maybe not in England, but in the US they do, don't they? (I'm from Canada)
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It's a process of elimination for BOTH the prosecution and defense. They get a certain number of "wild card strikes" in which they can eliminate a juror for no real reason, but then the others they strike they have to have a reason. They may or may not prevail in this. This is based on questioning and questionaires. In the end, you are left with what you have, like it or not. Most of the time neither side is 100% satisfied with their jury.
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Sorry, Roger, you are tiger now...
Doesn't the defense team screen and choose the jury from dozens of prospective jurors called upon at random? Maybe not in England, but in the US they do, don't they? (I'm from Canada)
phrnt phrnt
Submitted by Keane on Mon, 11/17/2008 - 1:27pm.
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That's interesting re: juries in the UK. So, there is no real voire-dire in the UK even in high profile cases? That actually might make sense though...
Anyway, even in the US attorneys do NOT pick a jury, they strike a jury, meaning they eliminate the ones they most do NOT want, and they are left with what they have, like it or not. Neither side can say "we want this person on the jury" and that person stays. It doesn't work that way, so if she were talking US justice system, she's still technically wrong. However, yes, both sides use jury consultants to determine what kind of juror they want and what kind they don't but it is still very difficult most of the time to predict what a jury will do.
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Sorry, Roger, you are tiger now...