Off The Wall

Dear Kizzy,
forgiveness is suppose to work for the person doing the forgiveness - so yes I am doing it for myself. I am doing it so if I ever see you on another post I dont think anything bad about you, I will just shrug it of and go about my day. See, you haven't forgiven so you still have that pent up anger we were talking about earlier. A perfect example why forgiving helps the person DOING the forgiving. You gave me a hard time, unnecessarily, and so your forgiven. I don't care if you want it or not, its for the forgivers sake. You can keep all your negativity towards me, and if you ever see me on another post you'll obviously by your strong reaction will still feel it again, and still be pissy about it, while I have moved on.

xoxo

"YOU'D BLEED ME DRY IF YA COULD, NOW TAKE THAT TEN POUND NOTE BUY THAT KID A BONNET AND TIE IT OVER ITS FUCKING FACE"

Submitted by NYAPPLES on June 23, 2008 - 5:14pm.
I forgive you Kizzy

#1 I have done nothing to require forgiveness for
#2 I have not asked for your forgiveness
#3 I do not want your forgiveness

You are exactly the person Migraineuse was talking about. You put that for you, not me. If that's what it takes to make yourself feel better about YOU, then by all means go right ahead. LEAVE ME THE FUCK OUT OF IT.

I still think you're an asshat, and could give a flying fuck about your forgiveness. It means less than nothing to me. I had not spared a second's thought on whether you would forgive me or not, nor will I.

************************************
"His name is not 'fat shit cat,' it's Meatball...and he's eating your crab cakes."
♥♥ If you don't talk to your Cat about Catnip, who will? ♥♥

Haim is now 36, it's taken him a long time to get to this point. Hopefully, he will be able to get to the point of confronting the person who did this to him. Considering his career went completely down the toilet when he was sued by the insurance co for a film over his drug use... at least he was finally working on a film recently. Craptastically with Bai Ling and M. Rourke.
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http://fuzzygalore.buzznet.com
Submitted by Migraineuse: "Chaps are assless by definition. If they weren't, they'd be PANTS."

PSL & MRS. K,

((HUGS))

PSL, My hormones are going nutzo right now (honey, once ya get a hot flash you'll think PMS is nuttin').

Mrs. K, I love diversity of opinions. That's what makes me think and even changes my mind on occasion (fancy that)! It would be refreshing if everyone could temper their opinions so that they are actually 'heard' rather than reacted to and before anyone calls me a hypocrite, yes, I know...I need to practice what I preach (I'm trying, really).

Topic? Cute kids. Yeah. I got nuttin' so sue me.

Submitted by . on June 23, 2008 - 2:18pm.
((PSL)) (((MRS. K))) ((Oh hell, EVERYONE))

I hope I wasn't being too much of a downer today. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Absolutely not, dear! It's good to discuss these things. We all want dlisted to be edifying.
I am always willing to listen to another point of view...and then reject it!

(Just kidding)
-☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮-
I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately~~George Carlin

"."

it is not you...many have contributed to this thread. I am sad because I woke up at 5 fucking 30 for no reason, have hormones flying all over the place, and George Carlin is dead.....the sad stories told here fit my mood.....

Again, it makes me even more grateful for the family I have, so I guess that would be a good thing.

**************************************************
“Am I the only one that care about this girl! Sure it's strange to see vains in the breasts, so what!! It's fucking normal to have these vains!"
ZarZerDude 6/22/08 re: Xtina

Here is an interesting web site I just found...

http://www.philosophytalk.org/pastShows/Forgiveness.htm

-☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮-
I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately~~George Carlin

((PSL)) (((MRS. K))) ((Oh hell, EVERYONE))

I hope I wasn't being too much of a downer today. Let's all laugh and cry and play some George Carlin! --> fake, teary-eyed smile-->:D

You all with these horrible stories of abuse are making me very grateful for my sheltered childhood. You are also making me really sad....I am so sorry that any of you have gone through what you did....hugs to you all......

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“Am I the only one that care about this girl! Sure it's strange to see vains in the breasts, so what!! It's fucking normal to have these vains!"
ZarZerDude 6/22/08 re: Xtina

I forgive you Kizzy

"YOU'D BLEED ME DRY IF YA COULD, NOW TAKE THAT TEN POUND NOTE BUY THAT KID A BONNET AND TIE IT OVER ITS FUCKING FACE"

Submitted by . on June 23, 2008 - 2:11pm.
Submitted by SadButTrue on June 23, 2008 - 5:07pm.

You have nothing to feel guilty about.
NOTHING!!!!

-☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮-
I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately~~George Carlin

Submitted by Mrs.Kravitz on June 23, 2008 - 5:09pm.

Submitted by angel_i on June 23, 2008 - 2:07pm.

She almost ruined my life but I forgive her. It's not her fault. She just needs to stay the hell away from me it's all good.
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Bingo.

Double Bingo and an AMEN.

Submitted by Angelina Jolie-Pitt on June 23, 2008 - 5:05pm.
Submitted by Mrs.Kravitz on June 23, 2008 - 5:02pm.
Submitted by Migraineuse on June 23, 2008 - 1:59pm.
=================
Not sure what, precisely qualifies her for the tin foil hat club, BUT COUNT ME IN.

************************************
"His name is not 'fat shit cat,' it's Meatball...and he's eating your crab cakes."
♥♥ If you don't talk to your Cat about Catnip, who will? ♥♥

Submitted by SadButTrue on June 23, 2008 - 5:07pm.

I was molested by a close family member from the time I was 6 until about 12. The worst part is, the violator is still a close member of my family and someone I have to see every couple weeks at family functions. I told my parents about 2 years ago (I am now 33) and it devastated them. But what devastated them most is that thought of this "breaking up the family." I didn't want to be responsible for that, so I begged my mom and dad to never confront the person or his wife, and let's just move on. I think they have moved on, but I haven't. I still harbor a lot of distrust and anger for this man. But I hide it well.

Sadly enough, SadButTRUE, I can totally relate to what you wrote. What an awful thing to have to feel. Like somehow YOU have to feel guilty. FUCKING LAME.

I will pray for you tonight. Never lose faith in who you are (that is the key to surviving abuse of ANY kind).

I think Feldman is douchier (if that's possible) He's "threatening" that he could "destroy" Haim with shit he knows and when Haim basically says "fuck you, go ahead" Feldman backs off, like "why would I do that?"...well you douche bag, you just brought it up, duh. When Feldman was to much of a puss to continue, Haim said it for himself, that he was molested by Feldmans friend. It's almost like Feldman was blackmailing Haim when they were first sitting there and he says he can destroy him. Feldmans wife seems like a stupid twat herself.

Submitted by Migraineuse on June 23, 2008 - 4:59pm.
Another thing about forgiveness that bugs me is that forgiveness for me is like respect: something that isn't given away, but must be earned.
That doesn't mean that one has to hold onto a grudge forever. There are ways of letting go of anger without necessarily forgiving.
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WORD and WORD. You can let go without forgiving. I think forgiveness is something a compassionate person does for someone who wants or needs it. How you settle it within your own heart doesn't have to be forgiveness. What "." said about forgiving yourself for not forgiving is true. There are some trespasses that cannot be forgiven, nor should they be.

************************************
"His name is not 'fat shit cat,' it's Meatball...and he's eating your crab cakes."
♥♥ If you don't talk to your Cat about Catnip, who will? ♥♥

Submitted by angel_i on June 23, 2008 - 2:07pm.

She almost ruined my life but I forgive her. It's not her fault. She just needs to stay the hell away from me it's all good.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bingo.

-☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮-
I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately~~George Carlin

I was molested by a close family member from the time I was 6 until about 12. The worst part is, the violator is still a close member of my family and someone I have to see every couple weeks at family functions. I told my parents about 2 years ago (I am now 33) and it devastated them. But what devastated them most is that thought of this "breaking up the family." I didn't want to be responsible for that, so I begged my mom and dad to never confront the person or his wife, and let's just move on. I think they have moved on, but I haven't. I still harbor a lot of distrust and anger for this man. But I hide it well.

Submitted by Mrs.Kravitz on June 23, 2008 - 4:02pm.
Submitted by Migraineuse on June 23, 2008 - 1:59pm.

Forgiving to me means that everything is OK with the other person again.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes if that is how you define forgiveness, then you are absolutely right. I don't define it that way, however.

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Hey, I have a good example.

My mother is so crazy that, after umpteen years of trying to heal the relationship between us, I kicked her out of my life. Hurts like hell, I'll tellya but the woman is evil incarnate. No lie.

I forgive her. I really do. She had shitty parents and grew up in a shitty place at a shitty time. And all that shittiness caused her to gather shittiness inside her and shittiness all around her.

She almost ruined my life (many times) but I forgive her. It's not her fault. She just needs to stay the hell away from me it's all good.

♥ Ah...good times, good times...
Lean Like a Chola

If it was MJ, one of the coreys should come forward and say it because MJ has children, and pedophiles cannot be trusted around children. I know its a huge burden to tell a rape victim to come forward when they dont want to or else other children may be raped. However they have already said this much to the world, so why not finish it. Even if its not MJ, whomever it was can be prevented from having interaction with children and prevent those children from going through what he did.

"YOU'D BLEED ME DRY IF YA COULD, NOW TAKE THAT TEN POUND NOTE BUY THAT KID A BONNET AND TIE IT OVER ITS FUCKING FACE"

Submitted by Mrs.Kravitz on June 23, 2008 - 5:02pm.
Submitted by Migraineuse on June 23, 2008 - 1:59pm.

Forgiving to me means that everything is OK with the other person again.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes if that is how you define forgiveness, then you are absolutely right. I don't define it that way, however.

Websters doesnt defineit that way either.
Migrainese is the captain of the tin foil hat club.

bitch bitch bitch
moan moan moan
tin foil tin foil tin foil
fosse and fosse
and SASHAY
JAZZ HANDS!

Submitted by . on June 23, 2008 - 3:56pm.
Submitted by angel_i on June 23, 2008 - 4:50pm.

angel_i, I hope you didn't suspect that anything I said was directed at you?

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I'm just glad to be here and even typing this with the freedom to know I won't be censored.

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Nope - I just skimmed it, to be honest, and reacted.

And I'm glad you have freedom too:)

♥ Ah...good times, good times...
Lean Like a Chola

Submitted by Migraineuse on June 23, 2008 - 1:59pm.

It is possible to acknowledge that it is not possible for everything to be OK again, without nursing a grudge or thinking of revenge. It is possible to be neutral toward a person while cutting them out of your life because they are too toxic.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, you are absolutely right. You can forgive someone AND cut them out of your life. Sometimes that is the only option. I do not think forgiveness means kissing and making up.

-☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮-
I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately~~George Carlin

IT probably was Jacko, cause Corey F. knew who it was and what was going on and he didn't do anything (by the looks of what happened in the video). Maybe Corey H. was upset blah blah blah...man these guys are such douches now. I had the hugest crushes on them when I was 12...

Your face!

Submitted by . on June 23, 2008 - 1:48pm.
Submitted by Mrs.Kravitz on June 23, 2008 - 4:46pm.

Mrs.K, Forgiveness isn't hard from a distance but when your own family members are involved--well, that's a whole different kettle of fish.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I know.

-☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮-
I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately~~George Carlin

Submitted by BRADIFUL BITCH on June 23, 2008 - 4:55pm.

Thank YOU for allowing us to benefit from your diligent examinations of the hotness.

OnT: ITA Doing this on TV is not a good way to get into it.

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"His name is not 'fat shit cat,' it's Meatball...and he's eating your crab cakes."
♥♥ If you don't talk to your Cat about Catnip, who will? ♥♥

You know what, if someone was raped and chose not to forgive they are well in their right not to. They aren't obligated to do a damned thing. The strong pick up the pieces yes, but if the others cannot I understand, and they need help.

■I'll tell you what he said...he asked me to forcibly insert the lifeline exercise card into my anus!-Donnie Darko
■Submitted by britscomingback: YOU CAN'T STOP HER BOOT CLAP WITH A BUTT SLAP!

Another thing about forgiveness that bugs me is that forgiveness for me is like respect: something that isn't given away, but must be earned. For me forgiveness comes ONLY when someone who has done a wrong, sincerely apologizes for it and takes action to ensure it won't happen again.

I don't think anyone should be expected to forgive unless those conditions are met. Sometimes they do anyway, but it's not something that should be expected of them. People have their own ways of coping.

That doesn't mean that one has to hold onto a grudge forever. There are ways of letting go of anger without necessarily forgiving. Forgiving to me means that everything is OK with the other person again. It is possible to acknowledge that it is not possible for everything to be OK again, without nursing a grudge or thinking of revenge. It is possible to be neutral toward a person while cutting them out of your life because they are too toxic.

It seems to me that the way we are expected to deal with pain has become a stereotyped process. But life doesn't happen to us in predictable, neatly labeled stages.

*______________________________________*

"This damn reality bullshit has got to stop before the crenellations in everyone's frontal lobes start smoothing out, giving us all lobotomies by drivel on tv." - Kizzy, 6/19/08

The "Ultimate Goal" changes from person to person, but for SOME people it is not forgiveness per say, it is being able to become the person they were before the rape, and forgiveness can help SOME with that. If you never forgive you will always have this anger inside of you, anger which did not exist before you were raped and that has transformed you into someone else. You will never fully be able to be the person you were before, but one has to try, one has to say yes this happened but now its up to me to decide what to do with myself. I personally wouldnt want forgiveness, I would want revenge, I would want the fucker raped then killed, I wouldnt care if I was hit by lighting bolt right after as long as I knew I had been revenged. But some people are different, others just want to live the life they were meant to lead before there attack. SO to say forgiveness isnt the ultimate goal is true, its not for everyone, but it is for those who want to forgive and through it try to cope.

"YOU'D BLEED ME DRY IF YA COULD, NOW TAKE THAT TEN POUND NOTE BUY THAT KID A BONNET AND TIE IT OVER ITS FUCKING FACE"

Submitted by angel_i on June 23, 2008 - 4:50pm.

angel_i, I hope you didn't suspect that anything I said was directed at you? I'm sort of in a hollow, sad place today is all and reliving certain things causes me to go into a sad, dark region I usually try not to enter into.

Forgiveness IS a very healing thing (to those DESERVING of it). Sometimes you have to forgive yourself for NOT being able to forgive someone. lol

I'm usually happy 80% of my life which I think is pretty fortunate really so I can't boo-hoo and gripe too much. Yes, I have some horrific memories that bubble up to the surface at odd times but for the most part I'm just glad to be here and even typing this with the freedom to know I won't be censored.

Migraineuse- There are spiritual principals people strive for in order to live a healthy, balanced life. No one is trying to tell any one when or how to achieve them. I'm happy for the two Coreys because clearly they are on a spiritual journey and being artists they are sharing it with the world. It could end up being very therapeutic for them. After Gretchen Bonaduce exposed her life with Danny she was able to finally divorce him and move on.

Kizzy & Migraineuse, thanks, it's getting harder to find the hot, this one was on like page twenty something at Google images....

On T: This whole forgiveness, closure stuff, personally, someone did something at your expense, forgiving and what not just seems like they still get something at your expense, it's good for them not always for you. It's not like they stole your car and crashed it.
However, doing it on National TV, still think it's kinda wrong.

?&!
"Don't get me twisted with average fan losers you have encountered. I am not one of them."
"I am more of a manipulative bitch than a cunt"
"LOVE ANGELINA aka HEART ANGELINA aka ???"

I know this is not exactly what we are talking about however it reminds me...I had a friend years ago. When I met her all she talked about was an ex-boyfriend. The relationship had lasted all of three months and had ended three years before I met her. In that case I think she just should have "moved on."

-☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮-
I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately~~George Carlin

Submitted by Migraineuse on June 23, 2008 - 4:49pm.

Anyway, I feel for both of these kids. They may be grown men but I still think of them as kids.

haha! I agree. These two will always be kiddles to me even when they are grandpappys (if I live to see them being grandpappys but of course).

Way to make everything black and white.

I hardly think there's too much forgiveness for anything in this society. I don't really see much at all, to be honest.

But anyhow, just to be clear - *I* didn't say: "Get over it." That's just rude. And I can be rude, but I'm certainly not heartless.

Experience your anger, get your revenge or whatever, feel your sadness, gather support, awareness and love... AND forgive. For one thing: When you get fucked over, you tend to act fucked up. If you can't forgive those who fucked you over how are you ever going to forgive yourself?

And that's really only part of it. Gah. Everything gets oversimplified here becuz sometimes the subject is way too huge.

But seriously: I would only like to conjur peace and blessings to all those who suffer at the hands human beings.

♥ Ah...good times, good times...
Lean Like a Chola

Submitted by BRADIFUL BITCH on June 23, 2008 - 10:44pm.

Brad, I was never even into Brad Pitt but I must say you choose some yummy avatars.

Anyway, I feel for both of these kids. They may be grown men but I still think of them as kids.

*______________________________________*

"This damn reality bullshit has got to stop before the crenellations in everyone's frontal lobes start smoothing out, giving us all lobotomies by drivel on tv." - Kizzy, 6/19/08

Submitted by Mrs.Kravitz on June 23, 2008 - 4:46pm.

Mrs.K, Forgiveness isn't hard from a distance but when your own family members are involved--well, that's a whole different kettle of fish.

Submitted by Perezs Fired Stylist on June 23, 2008 - 1:44pm.
forgiveness is something you do for yourself, not the other person and that's why forgiveness is always the ultimate goal.

_______________________________________

When will people realize that it's not up to them to dictate what "the ultimate goal" for others is?

*______________________________________*

"This damn reality bullshit has got to stop before the crenellations in everyone's frontal lobes start smoothing out, giving us all lobotomies by drivel on tv." - Kizzy, 6/19/08

Submitted by BRADIFUL BITCH on June 23, 2008 - 4:44pm
First, your selection of avitar never fails to delight me, and might I just compliment you on your exquisite choice today.

OnT: For sure they'll get more work: the next season.

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"His name is not 'fat shit cat,' it's Meatball...and he's eating your crab cakes."
♥♥ If you don't talk to your Cat about Catnip, who will? ♥♥

Mrs.Kravitz- You are totally dead on the money! Never rent a person that much space in your head but sometimes you have to work at that.

PS. I love your avatar. :)

Submitted by Perezs Fired Stylist on June 23, 2008 - 1:44pm.
forgiveness is something you do for yourself, not the other person and that's why forgiveness is always the ultimate goal.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That is what I was trying to say, thanks.:)
-☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮-
I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately~~George Carlin

Forgiveness is not something that anyone should enforce on the victim. It is something that the person who experienced it needs to figure out if thats what they want to do. If they dont, thats there decision, and it might be the right one, for them but someone else may chose to go another path. And if anyone is trying to hurry you up in your recovery then thats not a person worth keeping.

"YOU'D BLEED ME DRY IF YA COULD, NOW TAKE THAT TEN POUND NOTE BUY THAT KID A BONNET AND TIE IT OVER ITS FUCKING FACE"

Ugh this show.
I understand, to a certain degree, the long term problems abuse causes however since both of them want to be famous again so much, I find exploiting their past that they are clearly not over or even ready to deal with for ratings and exposure, kinda wrong.
I hope at least one of them gets something as far as work out of this.

?&!
"Don't get me twisted with average fan losers you have encountered. I am not one of them."
"I am more of a manipulative bitch than a cunt"
"LOVE ANGELINA aka HEART ANGELINA aka ???"

peaches- I agree with you to an extent. People do try to force closure and forgiveness before they are ready but let me say this- forgiveness is something you do for yourself, not the other person and that's why forgiveness is always the ultimate goal.

Haim is carrying a lot of crap around that Feldman seems to have put behind him. Like I said I love this show and I'm glad they are in therapy. Haim needs to expose the source of his pain before he can heal and I guarantee the source of his pain isn't Feldman.

I do not advocate telling people to "get over it" or "move on."
I would never expect someone who lost a child to get over it. Some wounds do not heal.
I just think at some point it's a good idea to make the choice to not let that person or what they did own you.
-☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮-
I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately~~George Carlin

Submitted by Migraineuse on June 23, 2008 - 1:29pm.

But why wouldn't you want to move on? Forgiveness does not mean forgetting, it does mean kissing and making up, it does not mean condoning what the person did to you. When you forgive someone you don't say "Oh, what that person did doesn't matter, I'm over it."
To me it just means not letting what happened to you destroy your life. Not letting what happened prevent you from being the person you want to be.
Easier said than done, I know.
-☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮---☮-
I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately~~George Carlin

Submitted by Migraineuse on June 23, 2008 - 4:29pm.

Migraineuse, that post made me laugh and cry. You're so right. A lot of times people just want to 'cure' you or 'snap' you out of a crisis and until someone learns to zap a memory out of your brain that just isn't going to be possible (and believe me, I'd gladly be the first person to line-up for THAT experiment)! I'd really love to zap quite a few memories from my random access memoirs.

Submitted by Migraineuse on June 23, 2008 - 4:29pm.
Personally I think forgiveness is forced down our throats nowadays and that makes it all bullshit. Like you're expected to forgive so you can move on and nobody else has to listen to your shit any more. It's more about everybody else and their own convenience than it is about you. They want you to hurry up and get over it so they don't have to waste any more compassion on you.

I also think that it's possible to find peace without playing hypocrite and having to pretend to be nobler than one really is. I'm sick of all the pressure put on suffering people to hurry up and find their closure so the rest of us don't have to be burdened with their pain.

--------------------------------------------------

so very true! No one should tell a suffering person to "Move on" when they don't know how that person feels! And usually the ones who scream to move on, they eventually are put in that position where they're tho ones who are suffering, then they understand. Noone has a right to minimize someone else's pain! I especially hate it when they start throwing examples of people who have it "so much worse than you"! Just because you're not starving in Africa doesn't mean the hurt your dealing with is insignificant!

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*I used to Love Celebrities, now I just love to Hate them!*

Submitted by Migraineuse on June 23, 2008 - 4:29pm.

WORD, and a AMEN, SISTAH!! Call you Bus Driver, cuz you just took some people to school.

************************************
"His name is not 'fat shit cat,' it's Meatball...and he's eating your crab cakes."
♥♥ If you don't talk to your Cat about Catnip, who will? ♥♥

I had the biggest crush on Corey Haim, I must have watched Lost Boys 100 times. His career/life is a shame, he's a hot ass mess and probably always will be.